[.Chris]

Does DRM really limit Vista?

A lot of people have been screaming that Vista will deprive you of your rights with the inclusion of DRM technology. Bruce Schneier even referred to this DRM issue as a "security" issue for Vista even though he's merely referring to existence of DRM capability. We're hearing widespread rumors that DRM slows down game play. I even hear people blaming DRM for the lack of driver support in Vista. Is there really any truth to these accusations or is this simply anti-DRM anti-Microsoft hysteria? Are you actually being deprived of your rights by DRM? Vista DRM simply gives you the choice of playing back DRMed content and it does not prevent you from playing back non-DRMed contentI realize that DRM is a controversial issue and I'm not here to endorse DRM, but I wanted to set the record straight on Vista and DRM so let's examine the facts.

News Source ZDNet Blogs

[qbyte]

I haven't been limited by DRM in Vista in any way. I can do everything in Vista with my digital media that I did in XP. I don't understand the hype??

[Catweazle]

Schneier isn't much of a "guru" if he can't tell that the Gutmann paper is a mishmash of misrepresentations, misused technical terminologies, obfuscations and F.U.D. crud.

ZDNet sinking to new depths there, I'm afraid. Schneier's blog entry has been reported elsewhere and discredited widely. The Gutmann paper has had plenty of discussion following it since its publication in 2006, and has been convincingly refuted numerous times....


Newly included DRM technologies allow the user to play back protected high definition content on non-compliant hardware. That's it! End of story! All the rest is F.U.D.

[.Chris]

Catweazle, on Feb 27 2007, 09:32 PM, said:

ZDNet sinking to new depths there, I'm afraid. Schneier's blog entry has been reported elsewhere and discredited widely. The Gutmann paper has had plenty of discussion following it since its publication in 2006, and has been convincingly refuted numerous times....

yeah neowin.....

[Catweazle]

It's a shame, really, that this issue is receiving so much of people's attention, because it's really a non-issue. Or in any event it's not a 'Vista' issue.

People's high-definition TVs and HD-DVD/BluRay home entertainment players contain the DRM technology. No other computer OS which omits the inclusion of the technology will be able to play back such protected content on non-compliant hardware. (Not without copy-protection stripping, anyway.)

[bruce]

DRM is indeed a limiting factor in Vista.

If it were not for Microsoft's agreement to include the restrictions and limitations that these companies want then it would be amoot point as they would never have tread down that path.

The DRM restrictions have already hit many people, and wrongly so I might add, you can find posts in other forums with a google search where peoples spdif outputs and digital sound outputs are not functioning because Windows disabled them, people who can not play back DVD's because windows has decided it doesn't like the firmware in their DVD drives, people who can not use the full HDTV capabilities of their video cards because Windows doesn't like the drivers they are using, and often these are the drivers that are installed by windows to begin with.

Then of course there are the restrictions that will be stretched over into other operating systems as a result of Microsoft's DRM. Because these operating systems don't include this DRM garbage they won't be able to use some of their new hardware. If Microsoft had not gone down this DRM path, then these hardware restrictions never would have happened. This isn't something Microsoft did, because they "had to", they did it because it benefited themselves to do it, they could care less about the ill effects it will have on the end user.

This is by design, don't be fooled. It is another method of Microsoft trying ensure that it will be the only operating system to work with certain hardware, and also another method of the hardware companies to force you to upgrade your PC hardware. This is an agreement between Microsoft and these companies to milk more money out of the consumer, and to lock you into DRM and proprietary formats.

Next shall we get into the DRM garbage Media Center slaps on files, and the restrictions it imposes on it's users. Like not allowing people to burn DVD's that are playable on set top boxes? Or dropping 1080i/1080p output down to 480p if it doesn't like your drivers/hardware.

Look no further then the company who created this operating system when you look at DRM, because none of it can happen without their cooperating and collusion.

[Josh!]

DRM limits HD playback. Nothing more, nothing less.

[bruce]

Your wrong, your audio can also be affected if you are using digital out, that goes for audio CD's, HDTV, HD DVD's,..............DVD drives not functioning at all.

I suggest you folks start reading up on this stuff, and I mean more the the usula it will all be OK Microsft sponsored web sites.

Independent sources have confirmed everything I am saying, and there are people out there who are already experiencing issues with the most basic things not working because of DRM and drivers.

[.Chris]

well its just like you cant take a screenshot of media center full screen..... because of this...

[Warnie P.]

You couldn't take screenshots of DVDs that were playing without specialized software, also a DRM tool demanded by the MPAA.

Fact of the matter is the DRM in Vista is in place because Microsoft chose to play ball with the MPAA, RIAA and SPA ahead of time and avoid potential litigation. It's not some grand ploy by Microsoft to make you get only the hardware they choose, it's early compliance, for better or for worse, with the big brother associations who are smacking around every type of digital format they can in the misguided hopes of controlling digital media.

Microsoft is getting a horrendously bad rap over this but it's the MPAA, RIAA and SPA who should be getting the bad rap. They are the ones demanding super stringent adherence to DRM. They are the ones trying to remove Fair Use from Copyright Law. They are the ones demanding software and hardware manufacturers "get on board" or be faced with costly litigation (ie. targeting users has failed, targeting mass distributors online has failed so now they'll try to control the form of access to media, namely our computers, software and digital devices).

Right now I guarantee the MPAA, RIAA and SPA are glad Microsoft is taking the heat for this because it lets them avoid customer awareness. If you think DRM in Vista is bad, just give it a couple of years and your cable/satellite digital tuner boxes, digital televisions, advanced digital cell phones, and next generation digital playback devices (bluray, hd-dvd, DVRs) will ALL be forced to comply with the RIAA/MPAA/SPA's DRM standards.

Just imagine a day when you try to record your favorite program on your DVR, but have to get a license to do so, per program, and then you can only play back that item on a specific digital television for a specific period of time as per the license you had to get. That day isn't too far off if the MPAA and RIAA get their way, and with the significant amount of legal and political clout they hold, getting their way isn't very farfetched.

This post has been edited by Warnie P.: 01 March 2007 - 05:56 PM

[elitenick]

Warnie P., on Mar 1 2007, 05:47 PM, said:

Just imagine a day when you try to record your favorite program on your DVR, but have to get a license to do so, per program, and then you can only play back that item on a specific digital television for a specific period of time as per the license you had to get. That day isn't too far off if the MPAA and RIAA get their way, and with the significant amount of legal and political clout they hold, getting their way isn't very farfetched.

But once they achieve that goal, most consumers will rebel against it, by not buying the DRM-supporting products, or finding other ways to get around the issues (going back to older technologies to do what they want, hacking the technology, etc.) until the product makers get the hint that no one wants that crap. Also, consumers would probably start writing to the government and making all of their political leaders speak up about it, pointing out that DRM eradicates the fair use law.

[Metal_Mickey]

I have followed the links given and basically understand what Digital Rights Management is. But, for the average Joe Bloggs what is this likely to mean to me? What kinds of problems am I like to experience because of DRM?

So I know what to look out for.

[Catweazle]

None Metal Mickey. It doesn't create restrictions.

The S/PDIF problems people are having are NOT because of DRM. They are the result of DirectSound being omitted from the DX API, and audio hardware manufacturers failing to provide Vista-compatible device drivers.

A computer display card and monitor is NOT a compatible device for protected high definition video and audio. Vista's DRM inclusions enable them as such, so that high definition DVDs can be played back successfully. Your HDDVD or Bluray player and HD television in the lounge are compatible devices. They have the DRM technology embedded. Vista makes your PC capable also.

That's all there is to it, folks!

Bruce, above, must be reading posts made by incompetent people. Ordinary DVDs work just fine. You can play them, copy them, do what you like with them. You can play, copy, whatever with unprotected high definition content.

This is all and only about playback of protected high definition content.

[bruce]

Record a television program in media center and then burn a DVD with it that you can play on your set top box. Media Center won't let it happen.

[Catweazle]

Sorry, Bruce, but I've already been successfully doing just that. I've recorded both SD and HD television broadcast, removed the advertisements from them, and burnt them to DVD for home entertainment appliance playback, without any problems and without using anything other than the tools included in Vista.

Media Center records the braodcast. MovieMaker allows you to edit out the ads, and it'll open the resulting project in DVD Maker to publish the thing to DVD. High definition broadcasts can only be burnt to a standard definition DVD, of course, but third party software would allow it to be burnt to an unprotected high definition disk.

If you've obtained the information from somebody else then you can rest assured they are incorrect. If you've been trying to do this yourself without success then you must not be following the necessary procedures correctly.

[Sphynx]

The extent of my encounters with DRM is thus:

Ironically, this was in XP Pro - had no DRM issues with Vista so far...

Welcome to the future...

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This post has been edited by Sphynx: 02 March 2007 - 04:23 AM

[Catweazle]

Funny thing about that, Sphynx, is that the error shown there is one which means that not enough DRM technology is included in the software. The DRM which has led to the error is on the disk, and is causing problems for the optical drive hardware. If it was a home appliance player having issues with DRM protections, rather than a computer optical drive, the disk simply wouldn't play and you'd get no hint or chance of correcting the problem.

(It generally only happens when people use cheap 'n' nasty 'pooter drives, by the way.)

This post has been edited by Catweazle: 02 March 2007 - 04:31 AM

[Sphynx]

Catweazle, on Mar 2 2007, 03:30 PM, said:

Funny thing about that, Sphynx, is that the error shown there is one which means that not enough DRM technology is included in the software. The DRM which has led to the error is on the disk, and is causing problems for the optical drive hardware. If it was a home appliance player having issues with DRM protections, rather than a computer optical drive, the disk simply wouldn't play and you'd get no hint or chance of correcting the problem.

(It generally only happens when people use cheap 'n' nasty 'pooter drives, by the way.)

Well, it was a while ago and i don't remember what disc i was trying to play (i moslty use Verbatim). But i do think it was on my old MSI DVDRW drive (it was dying). I've now got a Sony DLDVDRW and so far so good.

[.Benna™]

I was able to Play DRM Protected file in Vista, but what is this problem exactly

[Alfie Wang]

My opinion is down with DRM. At least, iTunes is taking the next big step to eliminate DRM from digital media. That's forward thinking to me.